Curse

Tozen · Feb 22, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

The article's information rings very true and I hope that ANet addresses the difficulty of the end game in future chapters.

However, it sounds like he is trying to do RoT with henchmen or bad PUGs. Ultimately, RoT isn't THAT bad if you play with guild members.

The skill bar is crucial too. While in most PvE you can get away with about anything, in RoT you need team skill bars to take out the incredibly powerful spikes you'll face from the demons in RoT.

I bet that if he tried putting protective spirit on a warrior or two and covering the enchant, he would fair a lot better. The biggest problem in RoT is the cloning and the ele spikes I've found, which is why having them focus fire on a protected tank is so important.

This is not to justify the area though. It could definitely stand a little bit of a tweaking, especially in the patrols that the author mentioned. (Taking on any mob twice your size is asking for trouble, much less lvl 28 demons)

JC68 · Feb 22, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

yea i agree with him, i have 7 PvE chars, completed Prophecies 3 times, Factions 5 times, but when i first stepped into RoT (like week after release, after playing previous part of game with my finger in nose) i was... angry from what i saw... so many mobs, high-lvl creatures (3x rain of terror anyone?) with call of torment... it reminds me last part of Factions at the end, which wasnt henchwayable for me after release too. yea, i was upset and was swear about Nightfall (yea i played with heros+henchies, with real ppl who know what and where to do is RoT easy/normal difficulty)

now, about 3 months later, i completed Nightfall twice, and get used to what i can expect in RoT, i adapted to RoT lifestyle, and have no probs with it... but i agree, fisrt opinion was like "wtf? damn anet"

-Loki- · Feb 22, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Since when is Realm of Torment hard? Whining about DoA is understandable, but RoT?

Yanman.be · Feb 22, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Make PvE mobs level 20 max, give more mob diverity( 1 profession each), give'm 8 skills that work. Fixed.

Emerikol · Feb 22, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Wow....Ryan has the nerdiest voice I have ever heard. It is funny listening to his buddies on the podcast mocking his voice lol.

Savio · Feb 22, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

RoT? Complaining about DoA I can understand, but... RoT? RoT's not any harder than Shiro'ken eles or Mursaat monk bosses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Also, he has almost 2 years under his belt, completed all 3 chapters, and is very saavy with the game. His record is comparable to most veteran PvE players.

Yeah, skill = time spent. Oh wait... crap.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 23, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Realm of Torment to me is mostly just an annoying area... it's not too hard for me but I don't enjoy playing there. I just get the primary's and missions done so I can get my green and armour options at the end.

I never bother with any of the side quests there and I never go farming there. I love the way the locations look and the map thing is kinda cool but that's it. Ohh I do go for the treasures there I guess...

But still, I think it's good there are different types of area's for different players to like. But if they had say, taken RoT out of the game and it had finished after killing Varesh that would've been just fine by me.
RoT could've been what is DoA now as far as I'm concerned. But, I still think that you gotta have stuff for different peeps to like.

In spite of my dislike of the area I have 11 characters that finished Elona and 1 more on the way...

Just cause that part is a bit annoying (and trust me I've found great ways to go through the area's to get to the next missions without too much trouble) doesn't mean I suddenly hate the whole game.

Still it is true that there is a lot of criticism out there atm and a lot of it unfair..still I can imagine that the devs are working their tails of to come out with a chapter 4 that will blow us away and if that guy doesn't want to play it, well, then he shouldn't...

Andisa Kalorn · Feb 23, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I'd expect more from someone like him.

I don't consider myself a good player. In fact, before GW I hadn't played any games in years. My reflexes and coordination suck, and my computer barely meets GW's minimum requirements. (My guildies used to laugh at me for dying in firestorms in fow...

when I finally saw the firestorm, I would try to run and the computer would decide to freeze).

And yet, I don't have problems in the realm of torment. Sure, first time I went in there with my usual non-imaginative build, I got owned in a few seconds. It didn't help that I was on my ele... I'm always a noob when playing my ele. I got pretty annoyed with the place, but got through it.

I worked on various builds and figured out ways to get through it much easier. That's one of the things I like about the realm of torment. I actually have to think about how I should put my party together. So I felt a sense of accomplishment when I was able to do the quests in the domain of pain with only a few deaths. I didn't get that in any other part of the game... it was just too easy, especially with the introduction of heroes. Heroes made the game easier, so they HAD to make RoT as hard as it is. Otherwise there would be no challenge at all.

As for the quest rewards not being worth it... do we really need quests that give a million xp and 10k for finishing them? If anything, the rewards are already too high, especially in places like kourna. In prophecies, the quest rewards were much much lower, but people still did the quests. It's the sense of accomplishment you get from finishing the quest, not the reward, that's important. If you want money and xp, then just go farming.

RoT has become one of my favourite places in the game. Even if those arms of insanity do occasionally drive me insane...

Ensign · Feb 23, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

I will echo one sentiment - the Realm of Torment is *not fun*. The mobs aren't more difficult than they were before, but they're much more dense leaving you prone to aggroing two mobs and wiping. That's a common theme for PvE in this game - one mob is very doable (ranging from trivially easy to marginally dangerous depending on the quality of your team), but getting doubleteamed basically means a wipe for all but the strongest teams. That makes learning mob patrol patterns and the safe routes through zones to be more valuable than playing your character itself.

But the thing about RoT that's really frustrating is having your builds randomly destroyed by environmental effects. I'm pretty flexible as a player and can build around it, but really it's a miserable experience to go into a zone and find that your build is arbitrarily destroyed. I'm sure less flexible players that have their one build simply get devastated by environmental effects to no end of frustration.

The point about the zones being unrewarding are spot on. By the time you're there, XP doesn't mean a thing to most players anymore. The best quest rewards are long behind you, in Vabbi, where you got gemstones for completing quests. The RoT quests are miserable things, slogging through waves of mobs under a miserable world effect for half an hour to get a few hundred gold and XP you don't care about. Yay?

I'm a bit of a completionist at heart and I had to fight to complete the Realm of Torment. Most MMOs make up for uninspired PvE design with shiny carrots and EZMode. Guild Wars has neither, leaving one to wonder 'why bother?'

Peace,
-CxE

garethporlest18 · Feb 23, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

I find it funny that people try to justify Anet's mistake with " I actually have to think about how I should put my party together." That's BS, we can do that with any area in the game. Don't use that to make it seem like it's okay what Anet did. This place would have been fine, if the rewards were more. More gold that is, I could care less about xp I have 9 million of it or maybe something else besides gold..something actually useful for the difficulty or stress.

I think Anet could go about making this game much better and more challenging without making the mobs just stronger. It's like they try to annoy half of the Guild Wars population on purpose so we quit playing.

Zehnchu · Feb 23, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I will echo one sentiment - the Realm of Torment is *not fun*. The mobs aren't more difficult than they were before, but they're much more dense leaving you prone to aggroing two mobs and wiping. That's a common theme for PvE in this game - one mob is very doable (ranging from trivially easy to marginally dangerous depending on the quality of your team), but getting doubleteamed basically means a wipe for all but the strongest teams. That makes learning mob patrol patterns and the safe routes through zones to be more valuable than playing your character itself.

But the thing about RoT that's really frustrating is having your builds randomly destroyed by environmental effects. I'm pretty flexible as a player and can build around it, but really it's a miserable experience to go into a zone and find that your build is arbitrarily destroyed. I'm sure less flexible players that have their one build simply get devastated by environmental effects to no end of frustration.

The point about the zones being unrewarding are spot on. By the time you're there, XP doesn't mean a thing to most players anymore. The best quest rewards are long behind you, in Vabbi, where you got gemstones for completing quests. The RoT quests are miserable things, slogging through waves of mobs under a miserable world effect for half an hour to get a few hundred gold and XP you don't care about. Yay?

I'm a bit of a completionist at heart and I had to fight to complete the Realm of Torment. Most MMOs make up for uninspired PvE design with shiny carrots and EZMode. Guild Wars has neither, leaving one to wonder 'why bother?'

Peace,
-CxE

QTF,

I agree with all that you have said.

Mysterial · Feb 23, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The point about the zones being unrewarding are spot on. By the time you're there, XP doesn't mean a thing to most players anymore. The best quest rewards are long behind you, in Vabbi, where you got gemstones for completing quests. The RoT quests are miserable things, slogging through waves of mobs under a miserable world effect for half an hour to get a few hundred gold and XP you don't care about. Yay?

Well, if you complete the whole thing like 5 times you get one unique skinned weapon. That's what adds insult to injury - the rewards that are there are *so far out* that even fairly hardcore players can't even see the end of that farming nightmare.

Bryant Again · Feb 23, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

QTF,

I agree with all that you have said.

I'll second that notion. Could not have been put better, and it's why I never bother with quests anymore.

Hockster · Feb 23, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

anerf, take a close look at the article linked at the top, and learn a thing or two about the basic concepts of fun/rewarding gameplay

Must you post in every thread just to whine and cry and moan and groan and complain? Anerf, sheesh.

Thallandor · Feb 23, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

This isnt even news anymore. This issue has been talked about 2-3 weeks after Nightfall release but seems to fall on deaf ears. This topic can only be considered to be revisited at best.

In anycase why do we care (why i do even borther to post when i dont even play this crap anymore) if you are happy doing what you are doing in GW so be it, if you are not the uninstall button isnt that hard to find is it?

Kakumei · Feb 23, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Well, if you complete the whole thing like 5 times you get one unique skinned weapon. That's what adds insult to injury - the rewards that are there are *so far out* that even fairly hardcore players can't even see the end of that farming nightmare.

You, like many others in this thread, seem to be confusing the Realm of Torment with the Domain of Anguish. An easy mistake, admittedly--why did they have to make the names literally synonymous?

Ork Pride · Feb 23, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Funny thing, I did every quest in RoT and never managed to die more than once while doing each of those quests. Sounds like Ryan needs to realize he isn't good at the game and take better skills along.

Mr_T_bot · Feb 23, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

However, it sounds like he is trying to do RoT with henchmen or bad PUGs. Ultimately, RoT isn't THAT bad if you play with guild members

Then we all go on a nice little excursion to the real world where not everyone has a dedicated guild.

Divinus Stella · Feb 23, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I dont think difficulty comes into it, its just places like DoA are boring, killing huge lvl800 mobs of the same thing over and over just lacks what the original campaign had, if PvE keeps in that direction then the next chapter will be the last, Anet are already working on "GW2".

GloryFox · Feb 23, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Holy Cow... what an article... I do hope ANET does read this even though that guy obviously can't handle RoT.

I can't wait to read his article on DoA and Razah req's.

Seriously though the rewards in RoT should be (have been) 1000-2000 per quest. But I guess PvP "balance" and class (Paragons, Communing Ritualist, etc.) assassination is more important these days.